Lancia discontinued outside Italy, no more Yank tanks for Europe?

"duurtlang" (duurtlang) 01/10/2014 at 15:00 • Filed to: None

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I just read that Lancia will cease to exist outside of the Italian market, and that the Italian market Lancia will only consist of the Ypsilon supermini.

I wonder what this will mean for Chrysler in Europe. Not too long ago Lancia became the badge under which the Chrysler 300, 200 convertible and Town and Country were sold in continental Europe (Chrysler in the UK). Will this mean that after the discontinuation of Chevrolet in Europe in 2015 Chrysler will be gone too? And is this something we as Europeans should feel bad about?

offroadkarter > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:02

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I had no idea they sold a Lancia 300

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:02

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Quick question. Were they selling well at all? Or for any point in time for that matter?

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > offroadkarter 01/10/2014 at 15:03

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It's the Thema.

dogisbadob > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:03

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Needs an SRT/Abarth version :p

duurtlang > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 01/10/2014 at 15:05

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Italian Lancias or American Lancias? Quick answer: absolutely not. Lancia used to be a significant brand, but it hasn't released much after the iconic first Delta and the 1980s Thema (shared a lot with the Saab 9000/Alfa 164 and had an optional Ferrari V8). The American Lancias, well, I can't even remember seeing one.

duurtlang > offroadkarter 01/10/2014 at 15:07

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It was badged as the Lancia Thema. The 200 convertible became the Lancia Flavia, and the Town and Country became the... Lancia Voyager.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:08

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I should have specified the american ones, but yeah, thats what I was expecting.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:08

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Yeah, it is a form of superiority you're feeling, against non EU cars, pretty much like the Japanese feel, too. VAG had almost 25% market share in the EU, last year. Even GM, in it's glory days had a smaller market share, in the US, lol.

For Sweden > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:11

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Scoop one up now before the auction houses start looking for them.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:11

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Chrysler is the sloppiest of the Big Three anyway. I don't think the backing down of Chevrolet Europe (calling it the "discontinuation" is pushing it) had anything to do with this. It probably had more to do with market shares being close to null.
It's very sad that this happens, though. Lancia is a legendary brand, and in my eyes this means the beginning of the end for them. Don't care much for the demise of the 200 and 300 because the former is terrible and the latter was never sold with the V8 engine options.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:11

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Maybe they'll just be sold as Chrysler's...

duurtlang > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/10/2014 at 15:18

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It's not, really. Just look at the rise of the Koreans. They've grown a lot in recent years. And do keep in mind that VAG consists of 4 mainstream brands with 3-4 very distinct identities, which is unprecedented nowadays and even in the GM glory days. And that's ignoring the niche brands like Lambo. #2 is only slightly above 10%, GM at 8%, Ford (with only one brand!) at 7.5% and Toyota (again, only 1 mainstream brand) over 4%.

Source: http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2013-fi…

Offer vehicles that people like and people will buy them. The Italians and some Japanese manufacturers (like Honda and Subaru but not Toyota) have failed to pay attention at economics 101. A vehicle that works in market X won't always work in market Y.

Pockets > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 01/10/2014 at 15:23

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I think it varies across the continent. In the places I spend time, they've got a very small market share for anything trying to be mainstream, but they're not that unusual; Voyagers are reasonably common and there are a few 300s around. Never seen a 200 though.

AMC/Renauledge > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/10/2014 at 15:26

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GM had between 50 and 60% market share in the US in the 1970s.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:27

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A... what?

I remember seeing the Ypsilon here in Indonesia (I can't believe somebody import that), and it's look dreadful. Plus it cost 40k to import that damn thing from europe to here, and it's LHD only.

Rubbish.

I wish one day they'll made some kind of do or die mission. A redesigned Chrysler 300 with Ferrari V8?

hangus77 > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:30

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Lancia will CEASE to exist...

/pedantic

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:32

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No, they don't, they look like they were designed by the same person.

M54B30 > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:35

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I saw a Theta in Dayton, Ohio back in 2009 or so. I noticed the lancia badge immediately (owned one when stationed in Germany) and thumbs-up'd the driver. No camo or anything on it.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > AMC/Renauledge 01/10/2014 at 15:40

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Nope, the peak was short, in the early 60's, of 52%, but it quickly went down, after that Ford and Chrysler started to recoup lost ground, and the Japanese and Europeans started arriving, fast.

Hoccy > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:42

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I've never seen any of these "Lancias", so it's not a great loss. I guess those that really wants a Chrysler, are able to import one themselves.

AMC/Renauledge > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 15:43

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Chevrolet is pulling out of Europe because their cars compete too closely with Opel/Vauxhall. Lancia/Chrysler's circumstances are different.

The Lancia-badged Chryslers probably didn't sell well as Lancias in Europe. In the UK, they're sold as Chryslers.

Chrysler itself has a poor and inconsistent track record in Europe. First, they bought out Rootes and SIMCA. They launched the Chrysler name there on the poor-selling 180/2L in the early '70s. By 1976, they had replaced the Rootes brand names with Chrysler, and were badging SIMCAs as Chrysler-SIMCAs. This continued for all of three years, before Chrysler sold their European operations to Peugeot. Peugeot rebadged their cars as Talbots in the UK and Talbot-SIMCAs in France in 1979.

Later, in the late '80s/early '90s, Chrysler exported the Dodge Spirit to Europe as the Chrysler Saratoga. It didn't sell. The minivans did ok, however. Jeep (which had been sold in Europe through AMC and Renault operations) did well. But passenger car sales went absolutely nowhere.

Then the DaimlerChrysler era hit, and saw Chrysler market some of the worst cars they ever made in Europe. So their reputation went from bad to worse. Once Daimler bailed, Chrysler's passenger car presence in Europe evaporated for a few years.

Then Fiat took Chrysler on and devised this Lancia tie-up. That obviously isn't working, either. Will Chryslers be sold outside the UK and Italy? It's not clear at this point.

I just feel bad for the future of Lancia. Though it's been clear for some time that the brand would need a whole lot of work and creative positioning to rehabilitate it. Fiat doesn't have the money to do that right now. And with Alfa Romeo getting more attention these days, Lancia may never get rehabilitated.

Since the Lancia Delta just got a facelift, I wonder how long it'll be around. It isn't Ypsilon-based, nor is it a rebadged Chrysler.

AMC/Renauledge > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/10/2014 at 15:53

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You just said "VAG had almost 25% market share in the EU, last year. Even GM, in it's glory days had a smaller market share, in the US, lol."

As you just said, GM peaked at 52% share in the early '60s. 52 > almost 25.

Mikeado > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 16:18

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Honestly, if Chrysler pulled out of the UK the only time I'd even notice will be when I watch The Apprentice and the fleet of black MPVs is something other than Grand Voyagers. I have seen a grand total of one Chryslancia Ypsilon and no 2nd-gen 300s or Deltas anywhere at all.

We shouldn't feel bad that they cobbled together a half-arsed range, advertised Americana with footage of rebodied Fiats and made no true rivals to the class benchmarks aside from the Voyager being value-for-money. As for Lancia, I really think their days are numbered, and that number isn't a big one...

P.S. It's "cease to exist." Just so you know!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 20:29

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Not really surprised.

I can see Mr Marchionne having a crack at rebuilding Lancia if his plans with Alfa and Maserati go well, but beyond that I can see them fading away.

Still, a decent amount of cache in the name (in Europe at least). Possibility of a resurgence.

Bluecold > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/11/2014 at 18:37

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The brand identities are wildly different. If you're a rich asshole, you drive Audi, if you like to fade into the background, you buy VW, if you like a deal, you drive Skoda, if you're the worst human being in the world, you drive SEAT.

4 very distinct brand identities. None of them I'd associate myself with.

duurtlang > hangus77 01/11/2014 at 22:08

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You're right. I'll go for my traditional cop out, and bring up the fact that English isn't my first language.